80M 5 PHASED LOOPS/4 PHASED V-2180

[killy]

Been fairly quiet on the board since late 2011 with the phased loops. They have been and still provide outstanding perf. on 80m cw. Only problem is the multiple ice storms, now occuring several times from dec tru april; must keep in shape just to keep them up!
Since this array is providing so much fun, i'm now adding a 4 phased inverted vee for 80m ssb use, again on a 1/4wave between elements; so this array will require only 210feet of "virtual boom", vs the 300 feet for the loops.

The VNA 2180 provides these extra accurate ant. measurements, required for proper phasing network calculations.
This time however, i wont have to reinvent the "wheel" of phasing calculations, and will be using the .XLS spreadsheets i developped for the loops.
Only problem now (and was having similar challenges with the loops), is with the snow melting and the ground barely thawed out, keeps the readings of Z and mutual Z changing on a daily basis, since the elements are seeing the ground further away as it dries up.
Am seeing changes of 1kc/foot of ground level variation on some elements, also affected with the rain wetting the earth.
Interestingly, elements 1 and 3 are over solid granit, with 2 and 4 over mostly earth; these last two are showing more variations than the first two.
So you can imagine the wild readings when measuring the mutuals!

Have previously seen these variations on the loops, requiring totally separate phasing networks for summer and winter; the winter networks are totally useless in the summer and vice-versa. Luckily, this mountain top forces me to quit operating during thunder season, giving me time to maintain this wire farm! The winter snow cover from dec tru april has shown very stable ant. impedances and consistent phasing angles/currents.

So will try to put an update of how this thing goes as it stabilizes, in case anyone is interested.

roy va2gu

[Bob]

Sounds very interesting, Roy.
ON4UN used the VNA2180 extensively for tuning up arrays and wrote about this in his book: Low Band DXing (available from ARRL)

-- 73/Bob

[mel]

I didn't have the 2180 when I put up my quadrature DEZ for 160m but have checked them and my original matching was not far off. Mine are slopers starting at 180 feet down to 50 feet, but I still see some shift in the j0 match point from summer to winter. Not enough to make me adjust just notice. Especially over the last couple of years with the wide swings in drought to wet. hi.
Roy I would love to see a schematic of the layout of you array when you get time. Sound VERY interesting. Cheers,

Mel, K6KBE

[killy]

HLO MEL,
glad to see someone maybe as crazy as myself; and all that just to hear noise.....and some beautiful signals.
been vy qrl over summer and haven't ck the board till tonite. but must say those 80m 4 elements' vee beam been a joy to phase and tune. The 4 channel tek scope gave the soul and phase/magn measurements had to be completed using an OWON 2ch USB software scope. Using the 1022I and the laptop was a breeze with the VNA2180 to complete the phasing; also tried the HANTEK 6022BE, but found it to be very limited vs the OWON. Both scopes are less than 100 bux each, with about 10 bux worth of components in! Go figure how they can do that!!!
My previous experiences phasing other arrays, made this a real joy to climb trees/towers to finish the tuning. Have worked 80m SSB JA several times already this season.
To answer your query, am finalizing a write up to update my web page hrlabs.net as well as qrz.com, to help would be "phasers" in duplicating my efforts. This time, i was able to simplify the tuning/phasing steps, as well as provide many helpful hints so one does not get discouraged, if things dont work out the first time; it usually comes from a minute oversight, which becomes obvious as you get your hands in the dough.
roy va2gu

[killy]

Well here goes another summer (almost) and using that completed 4v phased 80m array last winter, was just astounding performance on a practically daily basis, working JA/VK with great signals both ways. But am never satisfied with a given array, and this summer has seen adding a 3v phased wire inverted vee, colinear phased 0 degrees with the existing 4v. This 4/7V switchable phased array now covers over 2.5 acres of land! Distance between the 4 and 3 arrays is 1 1/8 wave center to center, for 80m.
Am now gathering/editing the notes taken over last 2 months of phasing activity and will be updating QRZ.COM as well as my website HRLABS.NET
QRZ right now just shows the physical layout, with more info added as i plow through my scribblings.

BOB, I HAVE USED QUITE A BIT YOUR "REFER TO ANTENNA" FEATURE OF THE 2180. IT'S NOT OBVIOUS as you enter the PHYSICAL length if you should use vf of 1 or the cable's vf. Always have to look at my notes after i found out which one to use.

You also note that a single type coax is to be used for that function. I'm using one wavelength total feedline on each element of that array, for obvious reasons, made up of 1/2w openwire + 1/2w rg213 coax; this has worked out very well on that feature, giving me an end of feedline reading for what's happening at the antenna terminals, saving my legs scaling the trees/towers. this you can do if you know your lines characteristics, plus actually measuring ONCE the impedance at the apex. This can then be used for elements' currents and phase measurement right at ground level and scaling back the readings for "real" ant. feedpoint impedances.

BOB, am now using the samsung tablet with android o/s. did a search to see if i could use it with the 2180. Seems only certain tablets will be useable, but not the android o/s that i could find. Would be great when you far away from power source. Any plans for android interface?
I'll never thank you enough for that 2180; it would have be an almost unsurmountable task to phase such a  monstrous 7 element, with lots of leg work running from el# 1 through el#7!
73's va2gu

[Bob]

Hi Killy,
I'm pleased to hear you're finding the VNA2180 useful.
There is no plan for an Android version but there are some nice tablets running Windows that can be used with the VNA or the AIM.

-73/Bob - W5BIG

[killy]

HELLO BOB,
is there a way to view the old postings, since my initial logon in 2011. had several postings i made then when initially using that jewel of 2180, phasing the 5- 80m loops. some notes i'd like to retrieve.
tks, have grt summer
va2gu